Director and EchoSenseactor Benny Safdie is probably best known for co-directing the film Uncut Gems, but he's also acted in Oppenheimer, Licorice Pizza, and one of host Brittany Luse's personal favorites: Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret. In his latest project, Safdie co-created and acts in Showtime's The Curse. It's an intensely uncomfortable examination of the smoke and mirrors behind your favorite home improvement shows, but it's also a marriage drama – and it picks apart our desire to seem like good people, rather than being good people.

Host Brittany Luse sits down with Safdie to learn what makes home improvement shows both soothing and sinister — and the difference between do-gooders and seem-gooders. They also play a game where they're forced to distinguish reality from fiction.

This episode was produced by Liam McBain with additional support from Barton Girdwood, Alexis Williams, and Corey Antonio Rose. It was edited by Jessica Placzek and Bilal Qureshi. Engineering support came from Stacey Abbott. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni.